porn in my opinion is anything that could sexually please a pervert.. Then again that might be almost nothing. I understand porn isnt pretty for a legal site like astalk.
Accept the fact the pics u uploaded were too revealing even if its not meant to cause offence. i know i wouldnt wanna see pics of porn here as asta isnt about the cheap thrills! Accept you offended someone, you are not banned anymore so no need to fret.
Lady candy's pic is not meant in a nudist manner. why be so childish? its like a playground and your jealous of the persons toy. Get over it.

For the record I have no personal issue with the covers or bnoble posts. I just used those to better define the issue with examples.

tobyb121 said:

I think it would be better to allow cover images etc. to be liked offsite with a warning they conatin explicit content, but any other explicit content has no place here.

@tobyb121 is that all covers etc? If not all, still need clarification of what would be considered too explicit for this site. Or would that be left to mod discretion? I think most know my stance on mod dicretion.

For the record I would not be in favor of tobyb121 suggestion.

bzerkproductionz said:

Accept the fact the pics u uploaded were too revealing even if its not meant to cause offence.

If you consider those pictures revealing and cause offence, why not take issue with covers? I saw nor heard of anyone taking offence to any of those.

bzerkproductionz said:

Accept you offended someone, you are not banned anymore so no need to fret.
Lady candy's pic is not meant in a nudist manner. why be so childish? its like a playground and your jealous of the persons toy. Get over it.

bnoble was unfairly banished, with no recourse. And to add insult to injury posts and threads to get a hearing to get bnoble reinstated were deleted without notification or explaination. Highandedness by a certain mod, that has yet to admit wrong doing & whose actions were condoned. Hard to get over a festering wound

Which party would you be referring to with words like childish & jealous? I only saw one person behaving badly, and it was not bnoble. What would be the toy? I have heard Asta referred to as "family" and "community". If Asta is the "toy", we have a bigger issue on our hands.

nayann - My suggested definition is complete. Two people kissing, regardless of genders, is not nudity or porn. As for genitals, that would fall under nudity. Breasts are not genitals. Frankly, none of my pictures showed any genitalia. Let's agree to disagree on parental responsibilities.

bodmas - I will have to disagree with you on malicious intent. I’ll refrain from further comment on that.

"and yes, A woman in bikini does not come under the category of nudity. but a woman having bare breasts or bare pubis spot or bare buttocks fall under the category of nudity no matter who is that and no matter what it tells the story."

Again, that is why I asked for clarification. There are many types of bikinis, some which expose large areas of breasts and buttocks, but, according to law, the women are not nude. If you can wear it on the beach without getting arrested, then I do not see how it can be called nudity.

bodmas, my banishment was from questioning rule #15, so, I do not see how it can be removed from the discussion of rule #15. Yes, I can see that it might be uncomfortable for you and others, but I assure you that I was MOST uncomfortable being unfairly banned. As you said, my banishment cannot be justified or denied. The only way to prevent this from happening again is to discuss it in the open. It's nice of you to apologize, but that does nothing for me. I will not ignore unfairness in any way, shape, or form. Hence why I started the rule clarification thread; hence why I was banned; hence why I will NOT ignore, forget, or condone such actions.

tobyb - Again, you have obviously missed some important facts. I DID pm Gravedigger to ask for clarification as to why my threads were deleted. Since my original pictures were of bikini clad women, they DID NOT break rule #15. It was HIS request that I start the rule clarification thread for which I was subsequently banned. So, no, not even under the original rule #15 did I post anything wrong. And yes, I did pm the admin and follow his directions. Remember, my original threads were the catalyst for this "discussion", and I was banned for starting this "discussion".

bzerkproductionz -

"a little ban"

No, I must disagree. I was the one banned for asking for a rule clarification AFTER my threads were deleted for pictures that did NOT break rule #15.

"Accept the fact the pics u uploaded were too revealing even if its not meant to cause offence."

No, I will NOT. Women in bikinis and underwear are not "too revealing". If they are, I suggest you avoid tv, movies, ads, and the local swimming pool. I believe the point people were making with ladycandy's avatar was that it was a women in a bikini, same as the pictures in my thread that she deleted for nudity.

"Get over it."

Since this has happened to ME, I think you will understand that I will "get over it" when I feel like it has been properly addressed.

Gravedigger - Yes, I am all for keeping our book covers. However, it would only be fair to allow pictures that are not more explicit than the covers to be posted, especially in private teams. In my personal opinion, private teams should be moderated by team owners and team mods. Is that something that can be discussed?

Ok the issue would be on age in this forum then?

To begin, I would just like to thank Gravedigger for listening to his members' concerns and unbanning BNoble. In addition, I am grateful that Gravedigger and other site administators have created this space so that members can provide input regarding rule #15.

That said, I also agree with several other members that we can't remove the issue of global moderator abuse from this discussion. In just the last 24 hours or so, it appears that a thread on the All About Menage team that directed people to this FAQ thread was recently deleted by Ladycandy and one other moderator because they felt the thread was encouraging "spam." I too, got a similar message last night and was even informed (though the comment was later retracted) that a "report" had been made about me on the moderator's forum.

I have a hard time believing that all global moderator abuse has ceased when several of us are still getting threatening-sounding PMs and/or are having our threads deleted.

bnoble, images in bikinis are one thing, you are doing a good job of acting the innocent party, but the post you were banned for was the one in the FAQ and Support section, which showed naked breasts and buttocks and people in explicit positions.
I agree that images of people in bikinis should not have been deleted, but this is not what you were banned for, you took this too far, and are not really offering any help in fixing the situation. GD made this post to explain you ban, and reinstatement, and then open discussion for the ammendments to the rules, so far you have managed to complain about your ban, and how everyone elses ideas are wrong.
What is needed is some more progressive thought on how we can develop the forum, and as you were a driving force in starting this discussion, I think you have a strong voice in the direction it should take.
tobyb

tobyb - So, I was banned for posting ART pictures illustrating the point that nudity does not automatically equal porn, which WAS a point I brought up with Gravedigger, which is WHY I included examples of what I meant. As a matter of fact, those pictures have been used in advertisements and exhibits. No matter how you look at it, it was wrong to ban me. Have I said that? Yes. Complaining? Really. I see it as a serious problem.

Furthermore, I have shared my thoughts on rule #15 repeatedly.

I said:

First, if I understand you right, Gravedigger, pictures of women in bikinis and underwear will be allowed, correct? So, I would be able to re-post my original two threads, correct?

Secondly, will we be allowed to post book covers still? As earlier comments point out, most book covers in the private teams AND the public forum have images of naked body parts, including men and women's buttocks.

I also said:

Gravedigger, here's what I'd define nudity and porn as:

Nudity is "the state of wearing no clothing."
"Pornography or porn is the depiction of explicit sexual subject matter for the purpose of sexually exciting the viewer. Pornography makes no claim to artistic merit, unlike erotica, which does."

Therefore, I'd say any depiction of nudity where the person(s) are engaged in a sexual act for the purpose of sexually exciting the viewer that has no claim to artistic merit should not be posted.

Finally, I said:

Two people kissing, regardless of genders, is not nudity or porn. As for genitals, that would fall under nudity. Breasts are not genitals.

Gravedigger - Yes, I am all for keeping our book covers. However, it would only be fair to allow pictures that are not more explicit than the covers to be posted, especially in private teams. In my personal opinion, private teams should be moderated by team owners and team mods. Is that something that can be discussed?

I also agree with Jack, Pleo, and Reader40's comments here, which is why I "+" them. If any of these points are not clear to you, feel free to ask me about them.

why be so childish?, bzerkproduction,Do you even know what your talking about,being banned without a warning over an issue that was req by the senior mod.I don't think anyone would be happy about that!!

4335duval said:

why be so childish?, bzerkproduction,Do you even know what your talking about,being banned without a warning over an issue that was req by the senior mod.I don't think anyone would be happy about that!!

Do you aware of rules?
Do you know what is meaning of ban at first sight?
Let me explain, for rules head towards footer and if you banned at sight no question of PM. Use common sense, instead directing others.
What ever ladycandy did was according to the rule.
So far I noticed some members repeatedly offensive towards her
in order to hide their own blunders. That's shameful act.
Learn to respect guys.
@ bnoble, anybody will laugh at your definition. You are trying to act innocent, but you aren't innocent. Just trying to humaliate members supporting the rules. Grow up !!
It's asta which given you chance and you are trying to show yourself above asta.
Shameful act !!

bnoble, images in bikinis are one thing, you are doing a good job of acting the innocent party, but the post you were banned for was the one in the FAQ and Support section, which showed naked breasts and buttocks and people in explicit positions.

tobyb121 - please go back and read bnoble's post in the original thread again.

This question came up when two of my Finger Lickin' Good team threads were deleted without any explanation or message. They were entitled "Perfect Booty?" and "Perfect Breasts?". Now, they had pictures of said items, but they were clothed in some way. Not what I would consider pornographic. I've seen less coverage on a tv commercial. My bikini even covers less than those in the pics, lol.

When I queried this, I was told that maybe the mod considered it nudity. So, I'd like to discuss the definition of pornographic content. The people in my pics wore bras, panties, or bikinis. Is that really going to be considered pornographic? What about art pictures? Quite a few of them contain only partially dressed, if not nude figures.

I guess what I'm asking for is a very clear definition of "pornographic" here. Again, my threads had pics of people with some form of clothing, i.e., underwear/bikinis. They were not nude. They were not engaging in sex, lol.

She CLEARLY states that she is asking for a definition. That she put up pictures showing nudity that are often considered artworks, not pornography, to ask this community what they thought. Her question was should nudity with artistic value be separated from pornography and thus acceptable here? She started that discussion at the request of Astatalk's administration and it's nearly impossible to have a debate about what image is allowable when you don't actually see the images in question!!!!!. If the Asta administration and community chose to disapprove of those images, I can understand them being removed. But do you honestly think a member should be banned for doing this? I'm sorry, but I absolutely do not see any guilt in her actions.

And she had a fair point. Is the unacceptable nudity? It shows completely bared breasts. What about? It shows a male penis and buttocks. Please notice that I have included links to the wikipedia pages on these two items rather than post the images themselves here lest that upset people. Please don't click on the links unless you want to see nudity.

These are two of the greatest artworks in human history. Hundreds of thousands of people pay entry to museums to see these images and others like them from every culture in the world every year. Do you want to ban them? Is that was Asta is about?

Guys asta is neither TV or it's drama nor any museum. This must be clear to the members not to take shelter of these to validate nudity.
We are not here to take sex education or cheap materials.
We are here from different corner
of world having diffrent acceptance. So it's my request GD Sir, please keep my points in mind too while finalising rule.

bzerkproductionz - Excuse me. If you are asking if I'm of legal age, then yes, I am. If you do not agree with my definition of nudity, please provide your own. That's what happens in discussions.

nayann - My definition is laughable? "Grow up"? Please learn to respect others yourself.

You do not agree with me. Fine. Comment with your own definition of nudity. I have seen NO clear definition provided by you.

Asta cannot survive without it's members. It is I who has given Asta a chance. And in trying to address the issues here, I am giving Asta another chance.

I will not repeat why my banning was unfair. My answer on the subject was quite clear.

@nayann it would appear you only entered this discussion to side with ladycandy (as is your right). My only request/suggestion is that you be less abrasive. Have a blessed day

I never planned on replying to the post as it did not appear to help in the first thread. But so many things are said that need to be adressed, I just cannot let it all stand.
First of: Thank you GD for doing the only decent thing and un-ban BNoble. That in itself is a sign of your understanding our concern.
Second: I might need to apologize in advance for my words to follow and were it not for Gravedigger to request clarification, I would hold my tongue, just to avoid unwanted attention by the wrong people. That said, off to the reply.
First page: Gravediggers suggestion to get a warn button is great. I agree with this idea. So, IF we see something offensive, press the button, say why and get it dealt with like grown-ups that most of us are. Remove the pic (or whatever we find offensive).
Further on, Gravedigger suggests we 'discuss' the terminology (ok, easy on you: what is) nude and porno. Well, a discussion is talk back and forward. Talk is the important word here. I refer to Adbid

Buddies 'GD' has already explained everything [Thanks 'GD']. We all are family, Please don't make issue of this matter anymore.
Every body here knows What nudity or porn is?

No we do not, and GD asked us users for clarification, so therefore we go on talking.
Next page: comment by nayann

@ bnoble, I think you are still feeling strokes of ban. In previous thread too I requested not to make it matter of prestige, same request here. We have never raised finger on your posting ability. So forget these.

it's not prestige, that's getting to BNoble, it's unfair treatment. If you had posted thousands of shares (!) you might understand it. And exactly that ability was questioned when her post got deleted without notice and while not violating any rules.
Further down: Thank you Bodmas, sometimes, you are the voice of reason, calming. Though, about the mala fide, I am not so sure - but nevermind. You are the only person so far - regarding mods - that at least hint that maybe something went wrong.
To bzerkproductionz

Come on folks just forget about this small matter ...If u are going to tear your your hair out over a little ban

very helpful, indeed. See above (point GD asked for discussion and nayann)
To Tobyb121 was already commented. BNoble followed your suggestion to solve the issue by PM and following the suggestion of your leader got banned in the process. And later on, in a comment: You got it!

Most mods will give a reason for editing a thread or closing it

That's what BNoble only wanted and what never happened!!
On the third page: bzerkproductionz, we did not talk about porn, the issue was 'nude'

Accept the fact the pics u uploaded were too revealing even if its not meant to cause offence. i know i wouldnt wanna see pics of porn here..

nor would I. But do you know, the pics we talk about were not porn but scantly dressed women and the consensus (sorry, we agreed) was, that they did not break the rules. Not even the later for clarification posted pics were porn, just maybe too close to the nude. I concede that. So Complain to GD about asking BNoble to start the thread to clarify matter. This is also to Tobyb121
One thing to nayann:

Learn to respect guys.

respect has to be earned! It's not dished out. Act the way, you get the respect.

@ bnoble, anybody will laugh at your definition. You are trying to act innocent, but you aren't innocent. Just trying to humaliate members supporting the rules. Grow up !!

That's new. Humilate. We ask for rules to be clear, so why should we laugh? Quite the opposite. And to your 'grow up' comment I can say that I finally understand the 'under-age' statistics. Some really act the 17th year old. And what chance did BNoble get? Do your really really think that BNoble would be lost without asta? We would loose a valuable contributor, but take a look around in the internet.
Oh, I see, some more got just added: As we have had some definitions by the participans (translate: those that read and comment) on the thread, I take it, those people take a real interest in the way asta takes. What is your contribution, Nayann? other than insult?

I know you are not in condition understand anything... you aren't interested in solution, if you then you must not have given huge length.

you complain about giving a definition just like GD asked?
But have you noticed, who really commented and who did not comment? Ladycandy, I have absolutely no quarrel with you, so far, we got along smoothly (hope, it will stay that way). But what do you think? It was you who initially started it and you are a mod. Try to ignore any lingering thoughts about BNoble, avatars or whatever. Just comment!!
Regarding a solution: A) get this warn-button. No sudden banning, explain why warn, give a chance to amend.
B) Porn: no place on asta! Clear on that
C) Boo__TEXT IS TOO BIG. IT WAS TRUNCATED TO 5000 SYMBOLS

First of all let me say WELCOME BACK Bnoble :)


Second of all, this thread has suddenly became judge, jury, and
executioner. I have read words like RESPECT...umm no not seeing that,
I see alot of people judging Bnoble for her pictures, & for her
feelings on being banned am I seeing respect...NO. How about words
like GROW UP or MOVE ON. This is a public forum where we come to
voice our opinion's it is your choice to read it. It is also
your choice to say what you think but, to tell another to grow up or
move on..how is that showing respect of another's view. How about
this comment that was made:





I am a "anybody", oh and I am not laughing.


This is not court and your not the jury! It is in your opionion she is
'Not innocent' not a fact..oh did I say welcome back bnoble? you are
unbanned..correct hmmm that is fact! so I guess that makes her
innocent.


Of course....this is just my opinion

nayann - Again, I will not repeat what I've already stated EXCEPT to say that you are welcome to comment with your own definition of nudity. If you disagree with my definition, here is the place to present your own.

@ ambraya, nayann did not mean any insult to anybody. He has been a boy respecting every one,
he has been defending the forum, GD, everyone out here whether at this forum or other [UF]. He was first and alone to defend at UF when they were abusing asta, GD.
Where were you then?
Everything is not no. of post, asta power or karma points. If you think so I bet
within 6 hours I will reach
10,000 points. Remember I don't lie.
There are so much to say about him, but not interested to share.
You must have understood till yet,
a forum will get thausands of poster but it's very hard to get even a single defender.
He is a defender, a daring defender.
Now come to main topic, it's much hyped created fuss in which few members got chance against ladycandy. She is a dedicated member without any doubt and what she did wasn't against the rule.
Now when bnoble is unbanned then fuss of what??
Why there is out of topic discussion?
And you your self going out of topic.
Why don't you came with solution?
Instead of long-long comment. So first know then comment.
I think nayann is right you guys not interested in solution.
Have a nice day.

No words at my end. If I say anything then that would be only repetition, so only emotion:-

thehitmanonline - I'm unclear what defending the forum has to do with rule clarification. Anyway, I think you missed Ambrya's "solution". Here you go:

Regarding a solution: A) get this warn-button. No sudden banning, explain why warn, give a chance to amend.
B) Porn: no place on asta! Clear on that
C) Book Covers are OK. In general (that's my view, I like GD's suggestion! Had the same idea). That covers movie covers, games and all else, anything 'official' is ok in my book.
C.1) If there are threads containing dubious content, it's good to give a warning and the mods are supposed to give a warning if they thing it's too close to Nude.
That's it. I had to get it out of my system. We are not children here. We are consenting adults that participate in this discussion (I really hope, that I am right here...) What is in a private team, stays in a private team unless someone complains.

@ bnoble, ambrya was asking about nayann's contribution that I explained.
Already following most of what he suggested.
So nothing new.
I was asking about characterising nudity, our core issue for which this much hyped fuss is.

Guys and Girls, please keep aside the personal allegation upon each other.

Ambrya said:

Further down: Thank you Bodmas, sometimes, you are the voice of reason, calming. Though, about the mala fide, I am not so sure - but nevermind. You are the only person so far - regarding mods - that at least hint that maybe something went wrong.

dear, I never said that something went wrong either explicitly or implicitly. right and wrong is very very personal definition. what you see wrong from your end may be that would be right from my angle.

the ready made example is this thread and rule #15. there is single line but different users are agreeing and disagreeing to each other on it. this clearly proves that wrong and right is very very personal. It always varies to different age, sex, perception background, culture, region, society, family and Karma. this is natural. but still we hope for the best and live together, make friends and enjoy our lives.

ladycandy has taken action on the experience she used to see what action on that type of pictures were getting in the past and she did it on the reports users sent, so you can't say that she had any mala fide intention. those type of pictures were never allowed in the past. you must be thankful to Gravedigger who has shown his generosity by giving some extension in this field and this is simply to see the sentiments of you all. Gravedigger really cares every one.

further, i said sorry and asked for my apology for the reason the way the whole issue went on. I do not want to pin point more as I always sought for the solution for the best of asta and best for the asta is that we should start our normal deals in an amicable environment.

thanks and regards.

bnoble said:

adbit - We are not a family, We are members of a forum.

.

Had not been 'Asta' a family, you might not have been given chance to express
your views. As 'Asta' is free and managed similar to family.
And I don't think there is any customer service/ customer care who will
serve. It's family which serves..

Ambrya said:

I refer to Adbid

Buddies 'GD' has already explained everything [Thanks 'GD']. We all are family, Please don't make issue of this matter anymore.

Every body here knows What nudity or porn is?

No we do not,

.

First of all I'm not 'Adbid', I'm 'Adbit', it's 't' at last not 'd'.
It's your problem, everybody think according to their capacity.
If you really don't know just follow on post you will get answer! .

Ambrya said:

Next page: comment by nayann

@ bnoble, I think you are still feeling strokes of ban. In previous thread too I requested not to make it matter of prestige, same request here. We have never raised finger on your posting ability. So forget these.

it's not prestige, that's getting to BNoble, it's unfair treatment. If you had posted thousands of shares (!) you might understand it. And exactly that ability was questioned when her post got deleted without notice and while not violating any rules.

.

That's prestige and little bit selfishness in issue, thinking only of own.
How can you forget the contribution of ladycandy?
I have been confirmed that she the Global Mod. always willing to help,
whether you run according to GMT 5:30 + or GMT Or other.
Always fast action from her, and she acted according to rules.
Which is needed!!
Now about PM how can you access your PM when banned. .

Ambrya said:

One thing to nayann:

Learn to respect guys.

respect has to be earned! It's not dished out. Act the way, you get the respect.

.

Well said, just implement on yourself first. .

Ambrya said:

What is your contribution, Nayann? other than insult?

.

Best explained by 'thehitmanonline' , for your information I tell you
he is my brother we work like a family team, wana know more about me
just visit my profile. We are contributing in complete respect whether
it be defending,contributing, posting, encouraging and all shorts of
needed for forum. I think you seriously lacking in all except posting.
So you have knocked wrong door.

We didn't teach insult, keep your manner at your place we don't need yours. .

Ambrya said:

Further down: Thank you Bodmas, sometimes, you are the voice of reason, calming. Though, about the mala fide, I am not so sure - but nevermind. You are the only person so far - regarding mods - that at least hint that maybe something went wrong.
To bzerkproductionz

Come on folks just forget about this small matter ...If u are going to tear your your hair out over a little ban

very helpful, indeed. See above (point GD asked for discussion and nayann)
To Tobyb121 was already commented. BNoble followed your suggestion to solve the issue by PM and following the suggestion of your leader got banned in the process. And later on, in a comment: You got it!

Most mods will give a reason for editing a thread or closing it

That's what BNoble only wanted and what never happened!!

.

Clearly shows your diplomatic approach, and you are not good at.
Perhaps you might not be happy to hear I'm a certified diplomat..

reader40 said:

@nayann it would appear you only entered this discussion to side with ladycandy (as is your right). My only request/suggestion is that you be less abrasive. Have a blessed day

.

He didn't taken side of anyone just told Truth.
If he does, What about your action?
Thanks for the suggestion..

Now coming to core issue 'nudity'.

All the fuss here is only due to lack of 'Frame of Reference'.
Take the example of two people One with Full Sleeved and other Half Sleeved.
Now when you compare two you will get Half Sleeved person is naked
compared to Full Sleeved.
So better fix the Frame of Reference and the matter will be solved.
And you can add Vulgar along with nudity to keep the 'Asta' clean.

I think things are clear now !! .

@ 'nayann' Calm down and keep away from this topic.
@ 'thehitmanonline' Sir I know you capable,
but no need to do such things, as we are real and responsible persons..

Have A Nice Day.

dear adbit, please see what I said earlier, " please keep aside the personal allegation upon each other. " so dear adbit, it would be better if you retreat your personal allegation yourself.

to all once again, please be careful that i should not have to repeat the above line individually.

thanks and enjoy.

bodmas said:

dear adbit, please see what I said earlier, " please keep aside the personal allegation upon each other. "

.

Sorry buddy, but I have to give answer, irritated by their allegation game.

bodmas said:

adbit said:

bodmas said:

dear adbit, please see what I said earlier, " please keep aside the personal allegation upon each other. "

.

Sorry buddy, but I have to give answer, irritated by the allegation game.

that was inappropriate. contained personal allegation and fight more and discussion less.

.

It's painful, when somebody questions about our contribution,
after all these.

adbit said:

It's painful, when somebody questions about our contribution,after all these.

Dear, You need not to take certificate from others.